Comments on: Who Is Palin? http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/ Politics, Pop-Culture, Poetry.... Tue, 02 Mar 2010 20:59:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Chris http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-44 Chris Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:22:00 +0000 http://polipoptalk.com/?p=190#comment-44 Having said that, Obama doesn't thrill me either. Obviously he has his own issues with experience. Unfortunately I read Ron Paul's The Revolution after he already dropped from the race. And even his message is convoluted in its delviery. Although, to Ron Paul's credit, at least he has a plan and is not worried about alienating voters to do the right thing in his mind. Lost in all the fervor around the "two" candidates is the history to be made in this election. Either a Woman Vice President or an African American President? Of course either way you will get an old white guy as President or Vice President which is status quo. Look at the societal progress over the last 4 to 6 decades. Remember women were granted the right to vote in 1920! Not a century later and they are in contention for Presidency and Vice Presidency. And we don't even have to get in to the Civil Rights Issue, 45 years after Dr. Martin Luther King Delivered the "I Have A Dream Speech" an African American is running for President. "The bank of Justice" is not Bankrupt!! So we are left to judge these candidates by the "content of their character." But can the true character be seen through the blinding glow of the news media and scrutiny? Combined with the "dirty" politics employed by both sides to mislead voters into thinking that one or the other is actually a real dirt bag because of this or that? Where is the true character? How can judge that? Having said that, Obama doesn’t thrill me either. Obviously he has his own issues with experience. Unfortunately I read Ron Paul’s The Revolution after he already dropped from the race. And even his message is convoluted in its delviery. Although, to Ron Paul’s credit, at least he has a plan and is not worried about alienating voters to do the right thing in his mind.

Lost in all the fervor around the “two” candidates is the history to be made in this election. Either a Woman Vice President or an African American President? Of course either way you will get an old white guy as President or Vice President which is status quo. Look at the societal progress over the last 4 to 6 decades. Remember women were granted the right to vote in 1920! Not a century later and they are in contention for Presidency and Vice Presidency. And we don’t even have to get in to the Civil Rights Issue, 45 years after Dr. Martin Luther King Delivered the “I Have A Dream Speech” an African American is running for President. “The bank of Justice” is not Bankrupt!!

So we are left to judge these candidates by the “content of their character.” But can the true character be seen through the blinding glow of the news media and scrutiny? Combined with the “dirty” politics employed by both sides to mislead voters into thinking that one or the other is actually a real dirt bag because of this or that?

Where is the true character? How can judge that?

]]> By: Chris http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-42 Chris Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:20:18 +0000 http://polipoptalk.com/?p=190#comment-42 So about this Sara Palin woman? Isn't it interesting to consider that the mayor of Wasilla (pop 5700 to 9000 depending on who you ask), and then Govenor of Alsaka (pop 670,000) is qualified, or experienced enough, to be a "heartbeat away" from the presidency? There are 19 CITIES in the Country with a larger population than the state of Alaska!! I believe the former mayor of New York City (pop 8,200,000) has already been determined not to be qualified to be President or Vice President? Arguably, my proximity to Canada offers me similar foreign policy experience as Mrs. Palin. In fact, I have been personally keeping an eye on those wily Canadians for some time, just to make sure they don't try anything funny, eh?! And, we have had an annual summit in the form of Canadian Week at the Boyne Resorts for decades now; as a former Dining Room Staff Member at the Boyne Resorts this furthers my credibility as a Foregin Diplomat. I have actually spoke to Canadians, where as Mrs. Palin and her Fear of the Russians prevents her from any position other than defensive and anxiously waiting. Though at this time, my political aspirations are met and I am happy at the County Level. I do see this shattering the "glass ceiling" of small town political experience playing out at a National Level. But are we as a country ready for this? Is this the dumbing down of what was once considered one of the most respected positions on earth (both President and Vice President -- President of the Senate)? Isn't this similar to saying that Ringo was the most talented Beatle? Sure the others can sing, write and play music; but that Ringo really connects with the average "Joe Six Pack" who we are trying to reach -- Lets put him in charge of the band! So about this Sara Palin woman? Isn’t it interesting to consider that the mayor of Wasilla (pop 5700 to 9000 depending on who you ask), and then Govenor of Alsaka (pop 670,000) is qualified, or experienced enough, to be a “heartbeat away” from the presidency? There are 19 CITIES in the Country with a larger population than the state of Alaska!! I believe the former mayor of New York City (pop 8,200,000) has already been determined not to be qualified to be President or Vice President?

Arguably, my proximity to Canada offers me similar foreign policy experience as Mrs. Palin. In fact, I have been personally keeping an eye on those wily Canadians for some time, just to make sure they don’t try anything funny, eh?! And, we have had an annual summit in the form of Canadian Week at the Boyne Resorts for decades now; as a former Dining Room Staff Member at the Boyne Resorts this furthers my credibility as a Foregin Diplomat. I have actually spoke to Canadians, where as Mrs. Palin and her Fear of the Russians prevents her from any position other than defensive and anxiously waiting.

Though at this time, my political aspirations are met and I am happy at the County Level. I do see this shattering the “glass ceiling” of small town political experience playing out at a National Level. But are we as a country ready for this? Is this the dumbing down of what was once considered one of the most respected positions on earth (both President and Vice President — President of the Senate)? Isn’t this similar to saying that Ringo was the most talented Beatle? Sure the others can sing, write and play music; but that Ringo really connects with the average “Joe Six Pack” who we are trying to reach — Lets put him in charge of the band!

]]> By: Kevin http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-41 Kevin Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:15:06 +0000 http://polipoptalk.com/?p=190#comment-41 Kelly, What you fail to understand is that the true "church" is my type. Anyone who denies the divinity of Christ and His death on the cross as payment for our sins is NOT a member of the "church" body. The physical church building or denomination is not the true church. The church is the people. The body of believers that follow Christ, no matter where they live, what nationality they are or what building they gather in. Its foreign to you because you refuse to submit to the Savior. You refuse to submit to God and put your trust in Him. Both you and Bill have a real misunderstanding of who God is. God is the same in the old and new testament. Where do you guys get the idea that He is just a tolerant being that will let you live life the way you wish to live? Point me to a verse where that is written. God requires that we submit to Him. The Jews were scattered many, many years ago amongst the many nations for their turning their backs to God and denying their Messiah. They faced persecution which God promised in the old testament would happen for their turning from Him. Yet even though they did this He still is drawing them back to Him and will take from amongst them a remnent to be with Him in Heaven when He returns. Many other nations were set against God in the past and He has uterly destroyed them. They don't even exist any more. He isn't discriminating against one nation. We all face His judgement. We can see His love and kindness in the fact that He has restored the Jewish nation. He has kept them from being wiped off the face of this earth and has called them back to their own land. He shows His great kindness and love with sending Jesus to save us. Here are some verses from the new testament that show God is still passing judgement and is not the passive God you paint Him to be. John 3:16-19 16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of (H)the only begotten Son of God. 19"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. Matthew 5:21-23 (these are Jesus' words) 21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. Kelly,
What you fail to understand is that the true “church” is my type. Anyone who denies the divinity of Christ and His death on the cross as payment for our sins is NOT a member of the “church” body. The physical church building or denomination is not the true church. The church is the people. The body of believers that follow Christ, no matter where they live, what nationality they are or what building they gather in. Its foreign to you because you refuse to submit to the Savior. You refuse to submit to God and put your trust in Him. Both you and Bill have a real misunderstanding of who God is. God is the same in the old and new testament. Where do you guys get the idea that He is just a tolerant being that will let you live life the way you wish to live? Point me to a verse where that is written. God requires that we submit to Him. The Jews were scattered many, many years ago amongst the many nations for their turning their backs to God and denying their Messiah. They faced persecution which God promised in the old testament would happen for their turning from Him. Yet even though they did this He still is drawing them back to Him and will take from amongst them a remnent to be with Him in Heaven when He returns. Many other nations were set against God in the past and He has uterly destroyed them. They don’t even exist any more. He isn’t discriminating against one nation. We all face His judgement. We can see His love and kindness in the fact that He has restored the Jewish nation. He has kept them from being wiped off the face of this earth and has called them back to their own land. He shows His great kindness and love with sending Jesus to save us. Here are some verses from the new testament that show God is still passing judgement and is not the passive God you paint Him to be.

John 3:16-19

16″For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

17″For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

18″He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of (H)the only begotten Son of God.

19″This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

Matthew 5:21-23
(these are Jesus’ words)

21″You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’
22″But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

]]> By: Polimom69 http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-40 Polimom69 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:13:54 +0000 http://polipoptalk.com/?p=190#comment-40 Thanks for your response Billy. I too had decided that I had said everything I wanted to say on this topic. Isn't it bizarre that the topic started as.."Who is Sarah Palin?" It certainly took a turn I had not anticipated. Of course that's the very thing I love about these discussions. As you know however, if it had been a debate as I had intended we would have stayed on topic. The last thing I want though is to insist we adhere to a strict debate forum. This is far more fascinating. I do want to mention that it was Kevin's type of strict adherence that drove me away from my Christian up bringing. 10-12 years ago as a young mother I seemed to be encountering many Kevin types within the church I was attending.I was very involved with the church. I attended a weekly woman's prayer group, had my children involved in the youth group, and Alain and I belonged to a couples group. At that time I had my personal training business out on Longboat Key, and about 90% of my clientele was Jewish. As the years passed I became closer to my clients. After 7,8,9+ years together many of them became to be like family. Several of these clients/friends were beyond generous with myself, and my family. I just could not reconcile the fact that people that had survived the holocaust, and/or WWII, as well as an entire lifetime of pure kindness, and generosity were as Kevin states.."going to hell!" How could that make sense? How could the God of the new testament you speak of be so cruel as to condemn these wonderful individuals to hell, after they had survived hell on earth, for simply being born into the "wrong" faith? I couldn't accept this damnation so I went looking for answers. I took every religion class the college had to offer. I read, and studied the diverse religions of the world, and I concluded that it was just absurdly arrogant to assume that any one religion was right to the extent of literally billions of people being condemned to an eternity of burning in hell! I simply cannot accept that a God like that exists. I choose to believe in a creator, and be comfortable with saying, "I don't know" and living serenely with that decision. Even if being wrong means my soul is damned. I choose to live a life that defines decency, kindness, understanding and compassion in a way that is implied in all faiths. Respect for all of mankind, and all living things is something that every religion seems to have in common. Thanks for your response Billy. I too had decided that I had said everything I wanted to say on this topic. Isn’t it bizarre that the topic started as..”Who is Sarah Palin?” It certainly took a turn I had not anticipated. Of course that’s the very thing I love about these discussions. As you know however, if it had been a debate as I had intended we would have stayed on topic. The last thing I want though is to insist we adhere to a strict debate forum. This is far more fascinating. I do want to mention that it was Kevin’s type of strict adherence that drove me away from my Christian up bringing. 10-12 years ago as a young mother I seemed to be encountering many Kevin types within the church I was attending.I was very involved with the church. I attended a weekly woman’s prayer group, had my children involved in the youth group, and Alain and I belonged to a couples group. At that time I had my personal training business out on Longboat Key, and about 90% of my clientele was Jewish. As the years passed I became closer to my clients. After 7,8,9+ years together many of them became to be like family. Several of these clients/friends were beyond generous with myself, and my family. I just could not reconcile the fact that people that had survived the holocaust, and/or WWII, as well as an entire lifetime of pure kindness, and generosity were as Kevin states..”going to hell!”
How could that make sense? How could the God of the new testament you speak of be so cruel as to condemn these wonderful individuals to hell, after they had survived hell on earth, for simply being born into the “wrong” faith? I couldn’t accept this damnation so I went looking for answers. I took every religion class the college had to offer. I read, and studied the diverse religions of the world, and I concluded that it was just absurdly arrogant to assume that any one religion was right to the extent of literally billions of people being condemned to an eternity of burning in hell! I simply cannot accept that a God like that exists. I choose to believe in a creator, and be comfortable with saying, “I don’t know” and living serenely with that decision. Even if being wrong means my soul is damned. I choose to live a life that defines decency, kindness, understanding and compassion in a way that is implied in all faiths. Respect for all of mankind, and all living things is something that every religion seems to have in common.

]]> By: Billy http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-39 Billy Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:13:18 +0000 http://polipoptalk.com/?p=190#comment-39 Funny how someone who wants to share their religious views with you never wants to hear or even contemplate yours. But then again, fundamentalists across every religion have An Answer For Everything. That's why wars are fought, and millions die. Because MY GOD IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD! All others? Go to hell. By the way? The Jesus of the New Testament ain't the one you throw out here. Tolerance? Understanding? If the answer is Jesus, you're in the wrong Testament. I just realized I don't want to waste another keystroke on this. There is no discussion with zealots. Funny how someone who wants to share their religious views with you never wants to hear or even contemplate yours. But then again, fundamentalists across every religion have An Answer For Everything. That’s why wars are fought, and millions die. Because
MY GOD IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD!
All others? Go to hell.
By the way? The Jesus of the New Testament ain’t the one you throw out here. Tolerance? Understanding? If the answer is Jesus, you’re in the wrong Testament.
I just realized I don’t want to waste another keystroke on this.
There is no discussion with zealots.

]]> By: Kevin http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-35 Kevin Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:11:01 +0000 http://polipoptalk.com/?p=190#comment-35 Kelly, I refered to what some people call those with my beliefs. I call myself a follower of Christ who believes in the literal word of the Bible. You need to get your facts straight about the Bible. The Bible is a collection of writings from various men throughout time. They wrote under the direction of the Holy Spirit. The Old Testament portion of the bible is taken from the Jewish Bible, the Pentateuch. Christians and Jews believe in the same God. They differ in regards to whom Jesus is. They did not believe Jesus was their Messiah, or Savior where we Christians do. The New Testament is from the Time Jesus came into the world and for a short time after His death on the cross and resurrection. The Old Testament teaches about God, His Laws, our sins and our own weakness and inability to permanently pay for our sins. It pointed to a future Messiah. The New Testament teaches about Jesus, His life while on this earth, what it takes to be saved, and how to follow Him and go to Heaven. I cannot explain why God chose to deliver His word to us using various authors all writing over the span of many years with yet a cohesive theme throughout. Yes He could have just made a book and had it appear, the Muslims actually claim an angel gave them theirs. He chose to do it the way He did I think to bring more Glory to Him. For us to appreciate even more His sovernty to have all these writings from many writers be able to come together as a cohesive book that stands the tests of time. In regards to words and meanings being changed through the various translations you are wrong. The earliest manuscripts of the Old and New Testaments still match up with the writing in the Bible you can go and buy at a bookstore today. The Dead Sea Scrolls that were found were dated back to around the 3rd century BC. They found the complete book of Isaiah and read it. It matched up perfectly with the current scripture in our modern Bible. There are currently over 5000 copies of original manuscripts of the Bible in existence and they all agree. These aren't photo copies like we can do now. These are all hand written documents. There isn't another book in the whole of human history with that many old versions in existence. Many more copies than the writings of Plato, Homer , etc. and people point to the writings of Plato as if they are all accurate yet they always want to discount the Bible. All for the love of their sin. All because admitting their is a God and that He demands you to repent of your sins and follow Him is too much for them to give in to. The Muslim religion was started by one man named Muhammed who claimed to have a book from an angel. This book was written after the Old and New testament writings were laid down. He took the Jewish Bible and re-wrote it to change the blessing to be on Abraham's other son. To that he added additional writings from his own head. He also only considered Jesus to be a prophet of God who didn't die on the cross. They teach that we have to work our way to God which will never get us there. The Bible is the only answer for our sins against God. That answer is Jesus. Kelly,
I refered to what some people call those with my beliefs. I call myself a follower of Christ who believes in the literal word of the Bible.
You need to get your facts straight about the Bible. The Bible is a collection of writings from various men throughout time. They wrote under the direction of the Holy Spirit. The Old Testament portion of the bible is taken from the Jewish Bible, the Pentateuch. Christians and Jews believe in the same God. They differ in regards to whom Jesus is. They did not believe Jesus was their Messiah, or Savior where we Christians do. The New Testament is from the Time Jesus came into the world and for a short time after His death on the cross and resurrection. The Old Testament teaches about God, His Laws, our sins and our own weakness and inability to permanently pay for our sins. It pointed to a future Messiah. The New Testament teaches about Jesus, His life while on this earth, what it takes to be saved, and how to follow Him and go to Heaven. I cannot explain why God chose to deliver His word to us using various authors all writing over the span of many years with yet a cohesive theme throughout. Yes He could have just made a book and had it appear, the Muslims actually claim an angel gave them theirs. He chose to do it the way He did I think to bring more Glory to Him. For us to appreciate even more His sovernty to have all these writings from many writers be able to come together as a cohesive book that stands the tests of time. In regards to words and meanings being changed through the various translations you are wrong. The earliest manuscripts of the Old and New Testaments still match up with the writing in the Bible you can go and buy at a bookstore today. The Dead Sea Scrolls that were found were dated back to around the 3rd century BC. They found the complete book of Isaiah and read it. It matched up perfectly with the current scripture in our modern Bible. There are currently over 5000 copies of original manuscripts of the Bible in existence and they all agree. These aren’t photo copies like we can do now. These are all hand written documents. There isn’t another book in the whole of human history with that many old versions in existence. Many more copies than the writings of Plato, Homer , etc. and people point to the writings of Plato as if they are all accurate yet they always want to discount the Bible. All for the love of their sin. All because admitting their is a God and that He demands you to repent of your sins and follow Him is too much for them to give in to.
The Muslim religion was started by one man named Muhammed who claimed to have a book from an angel. This book was written after the Old and New testament writings were laid down. He took the Jewish Bible and re-wrote it to change the blessing to be on Abraham’s other son. To that he added additional writings from his own head. He also only considered Jesus to be a prophet of God who didn’t die on the cross. They teach that we have to work our way to God which will never get us there.
The Bible is the only answer for our sins against God. That answer is Jesus.

]]> By: polimom69 http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-34 polimom69 Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:13:28 +0000 http://polipoptalk.com/?p=190#comment-34 I am just wondering about something Kevin...that's the third time now you have referred to yourself as a "religious nut", why is that? "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me"... was said by John. A MAN named John, some 3000 years ago. Why do the new testament, and the old testament directly conflict one another? Because It was written by a fallible, ''sinning' men. If The bible was written directly by a Christian God's hand, each chapter wouldn't be named after different men. Mathew, Mark, Luke...It would just say "From God,Chapter One". If I were awakened in the middle of the night by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent voice regaling me with tales of his latest miracle, chances are that once I sat down to recount the story, I may get a fact or two wrong. You see anytime anyone retells a story, it inevitably is retold through the perception and interpretation of the listener of the story. Also The bible wasn't written in the English language. Speaking from personal experience, whenever you translate a story from one language to another, it once again is inevitably altered from its original telling. The Bible that you follow so literally has been retold, rewritten, re translated, literally thousands of times, by thousands of people. With that said what are the chances that the original word of God is exactly as God had intended? And of course why would an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being, simply put his word down himself? He apparently managed to carve the commandments in stone, created every being that roams the earth, and performs miracles on a whim. Why would he/she then use a bunch of messenger's to deliver the most significant message he/she has to offer his children for all the ages of earth existence? How do you respond to the fact that Christianity, Muslim, and Judaism all originated with Abraham, and a book claiming to be the word of God? Why is it that 3 apparently different, and conflicting religions follow teachings of God's word in the form of the Torah, the Koran, and the Bible, and yet the ideals, morals, and most of the stories are the same? If it were so black/white, cut and dry, then why is there not just one religion called Christianity? You state.... "Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and even Jewish people all all going to Hell...Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims along with all the other false religions out there are following false gods and ultimately lies from Satan." Well which, "Christian" faith is right? If the Catholics are right does that mean that.... Methodist's, Baptist, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Mormons, Episcopalians, Mennonites, Church of Christ, Church of the Nazarene, Church of Hope, Church of the Cross, Church of the Latter Day Saints, Evangelical Church, Evangelical Church of Christ, First Congregational United Church Of Christ, Holy Trinity Anglican Church, Church of the Tabernacle, Pentecostal Church of Faith, Congregational Church Of Christ-Disciples of Christ, First Christian Church, National Conservative Christian Church, Greek Orthodox Church, The Peoples Church Of Deliverance, Unitarian Universalist Church, Mary Magdalene's African Methodist Episcopal Missionary Baptist Church of Christ-(This actually exists!!) Whew!!! Does it mean these "Christians" are "doomed to hell" as well? The Bible is a book of parables, meant to be a guidelines for Christian followers to live by, in order to live a more productive, virtuous, moral life. In all likelihood The Jewish Koran, and The Muslim Koran, actually come from the same origin, but in the hands of man, through ages of translations from one regional language to the other, became known first as a different name, and eventually as a different language. Until finally in the fallible hands of mankind the different interpretations become known as conflicting religions, in spite of having the same origin. Most religions believe in a creator. Using the example of the human body is convincing that mankind had, or has a creator, or creator's it does not prove definitively that this creator is the Christian God, and it certainly does not mean that everyone that disagrees is damned to burn in hell for eternity. I find the certainty of Atheism to be equally as arrogant, as the certitude of Christianity. I believe its really okay to say, "I DON'T KNOW!" and neither do you, neither does Gil, or the Pope, or Tom Cruise, or Buddha. No one can say with certainty that their religion is right, and it is unreasonably obtuse to believe that you can. A person can have faith, and be hopeful, but that is not the same as being certain. The type of certitude you speak of cannot exist without proof. Stating that something cannot be disproved does not mean it has been proven. Although you claim your not judging, your tone is in fact extremely judgmental, and self-righteous. Which means you don't acknowledge, let alone repent for your sin..so, according to your theory you may very well find yourself beside the heathens that you have so self-righteously condemned. According to your belief Gandhi, a pure, and virtuous man that devoted his life to helping others, fighting against oppression, and worshiping the Hindu God' will spend eternity burning in hell. And the likes of...Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacey can simply repent, and be truly sorry for the horrors they commited, and they will spend eternity in heaven. If this is in fact the case, I think the god you worship has a twisted sense of what is righteous, and just. I am just wondering about something Kevin…that’s the third time now you have referred to yourself as a “religious nut”, why is that?
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me”… was said by John. A MAN named John, some 3000 years ago. Why do the new testament, and the old testament directly conflict one another? Because It was written by a fallible, ”sinning’ men. If The bible was written directly by a Christian God’s hand, each chapter wouldn’t be named after different men. Mathew, Mark, Luke…It would just say “From God,Chapter One”. If I were awakened in the middle of the night by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent voice regaling me with tales of his latest miracle, chances are that once I sat down to recount the story, I may get a fact or two wrong. You see anytime anyone retells a story, it inevitably is retold through the perception and interpretation of the listener of the story. Also The bible wasn’t written in the English language. Speaking from personal experience, whenever you translate a story from one language to another, it once again is inevitably altered from its original telling. The Bible that you follow so literally has been retold, rewritten, re translated, literally thousands of times, by thousands of people. With that said what are the chances that the original word of God is exactly as God had intended?
And of course why would an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being, simply put his word down himself? He apparently managed to carve the commandments in stone, created every being that roams the earth, and performs miracles on a whim. Why would he/she then use a bunch of messenger’s to deliver the most significant message he/she has to offer his children for all the ages of earth existence?
How do you respond to the fact that Christianity, Muslim, and Judaism all originated with Abraham, and a book claiming to be the word of God? Why is it that 3 apparently different, and conflicting religions follow teachings of God’s word in the form of the Torah, the Koran, and the Bible, and yet the ideals, morals, and most of the stories are the same?
If it were so black/white, cut and dry, then why is there not just one religion called Christianity?
You state….
“Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and even Jewish people all all going to Hell…Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims along with all the other false religions out there are following false gods and ultimately lies from Satan.”
Well which, “Christian” faith is right? If the Catholics are right does that mean that…. Methodist’s, Baptist, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Mormons, Episcopalians, Mennonites, Church of Christ, Church of the Nazarene, Church of Hope, Church of the Cross, Church of the Latter Day Saints, Evangelical Church, Evangelical Church of Christ, First Congregational United Church Of Christ, Holy Trinity Anglican Church, Church of the Tabernacle, Pentecostal Church of Faith, Congregational Church Of Christ-Disciples of Christ, First Christian Church, National Conservative Christian Church, Greek Orthodox Church, The Peoples Church Of Deliverance, Unitarian Universalist Church, Mary Magdalene’s African Methodist Episcopal Missionary Baptist Church of Christ-(This actually exists!!) Whew!!!
Does it mean these “Christians” are “doomed to hell” as well?

The Bible is a book of parables, meant to be a guidelines for Christian followers to live by, in order to live a more productive, virtuous, moral life. In all likelihood The Jewish Koran, and The Muslim Koran, actually come from the same origin, but in the hands of man, through ages of translations from one regional language to the other, became known first as a different name, and eventually as a different language. Until finally in the fallible hands of mankind the different interpretations become known as conflicting religions, in spite of having the same origin.
Most religions believe in a creator. Using the example of the human body is convincing that mankind had, or has a creator, or creator’s it does not prove definitively that this creator is the Christian God, and it certainly does not mean that everyone that disagrees is damned to burn in hell for eternity.
I find the certainty of Atheism to be equally as arrogant, as the certitude of Christianity. I believe its really okay to say, “I DON’T KNOW!” and neither do you, neither does Gil, or the Pope, or Tom Cruise, or Buddha. No one can say with certainty that their religion is right, and it is unreasonably obtuse to believe that you can. A person can have faith, and be hopeful, but that is not the same as being certain. The type of certitude you speak of cannot exist without proof. Stating that something cannot be disproved does not mean it has been proven.
Although you claim your not judging, your tone is in fact extremely judgmental, and self-righteous. Which means you don’t acknowledge, let alone repent for your sin..so, according to your theory you may very well find yourself beside the heathens that you have so self-righteously condemned. According to your belief Gandhi, a pure, and virtuous man that devoted his life to helping others, fighting against oppression, and worshiping the Hindu God’ will spend eternity burning in hell. And the likes of…Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacey can simply repent, and be truly sorry for the horrors they commited, and
they will spend eternity in heaven. If this is in fact the case, I think the god you worship has a twisted sense of what is righteous, and just.

]]> By: Billy http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-32 Billy Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:02:32 +0000 http://polipoptalk.com/?p=190#comment-32 Can't debate someone that believes unruly children should be stoned (and adulterers), says we can have many wives and slaves, and that women on their period are unpure and should be kept away (ok, as far as moods, I'm okay with that one.) No shellfish. Can't trim your beards. Oh, and if a man kills your cow, you must give him three goats. You want to follow the Bible to the letter? My friend, you are an absolutist (MY RELIGION IS BETTER THAN YOURS! MY GOD WILL SMITE THEE!) and - sorry - there is verrrry little difference between you and Islamic fundamentalists. Or any other whack-job nutcase winged-out group that believes they are God's Chosen. Y'all ain't budgin'. Y'all got all the answers. And the only difference between you and terrorists? You haven't used violence to make your point. Except for the clinics your ilk has bombed. Then again, can't debate you, because You And Yours Are God's Chosen. There is no talk. Oh, and as far as the 'scientific' stuff? Does your God allow you to smoke enough to truly buy that hook and sinker? PLEASE don't damn me to Hell, because - gosh - I'd be awfully worried about how I look in Your Eyes. Can’t debate someone that believes unruly children should be stoned (and adulterers), says we can have many wives and slaves, and that women on their period are unpure and should be kept away (ok, as far as moods, I’m okay with that one.) No shellfish. Can’t trim your beards. Oh, and if a man kills your cow, you must give him three goats. You want to follow the Bible to the letter? My friend, you are an absolutist (MY RELIGION IS BETTER THAN YOURS! MY GOD WILL SMITE THEE!) and – sorry – there is verrrry little difference between you and Islamic fundamentalists. Or any other whack-job nutcase winged-out group that believes they are God’s Chosen. Y’all ain’t budgin’. Y’all got all the answers. And the only difference between you and terrorists? You haven’t used violence to make your point. Except for the clinics your ilk has bombed. Then again, can’t debate you, because You And Yours Are God’s Chosen. There is no talk. Oh, and as far as the ‘scientific’ stuff? Does your God allow you to smoke enough to truly buy that hook and sinker? PLEASE don’t damn me to Hell, because – gosh – I’d be awfully worried about how I look in Your Eyes.

]]> By: Gil http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-29 Gil Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:24:43 +0000 http://polipoptalk.com/?p=190#comment-29 I'm pretty happy here actually right now. I'll probably leave in a couple years, and if I won't be missed by you, I will by all the people who know me. I don't think people here are idiots, I just think many are self deceiving. You're right, I get worked up sometimes with these discussions, but that's where the fun is in arguing. I do think your beliefs are extreme and unreasonable though, even harmfull, more than most people I know to be religious. But hey, I'm entitled to my opinion, and so are you to yours. We're not going to agree, that's obvious. So, I will chill out, and thank you for the jousting. I’m pretty happy here actually right now. I’ll probably leave in a couple years, and if I won’t be missed by you, I will by all the people who know me. I don’t think people here are idiots, I just think many are self deceiving. You’re right, I get worked up sometimes with these discussions, but that’s where the fun is in arguing. I do think your beliefs are extreme and unreasonable though, even harmfull, more than most people I know to be religious. But hey, I’m entitled to my opinion, and so are you to yours. We’re not going to agree, that’s obvious. So, I will chill out, and thank you for the jousting.

]]> By: Kevin http://polipoptalk.com/blog/2008/10/who-is-palin/comment-page-1/#comment-28 Kevin Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:24:22 +0000 http://polipoptalk.com/?p=190#comment-28 Gil, You really need to chill out. You are getting a little riled up there. Are you having a hard time fighting fending your position to resort to name calling? Its a common trait amongst all athiests/ agnostics. Just for a little more clarification. The Greeks weren't the first to say the earth was round. The Greeks weren't even a large nation at that the time of Isaiah. Isaiah was a prophet of God at around 740 BC and wrote that, 200+ years before the Greeks. He wasn't an astronomer or anything like that. He wrote what God told him to write. The Bible as we have now is made up of ancient writings pre-dating the Romans and the Greeks. When do you think Solomon wrote about the cycle of air currents? He lived during the 10th century BC. I would say thats thousands of years ago. Oh, and if you think this country is full of idiots and that sanity rules in Europe you are more than welcome to go back there. You won't be missed. Oh, thats right, a country full of socialism that won't let you run a business. You are just not happy anywhere are you? Gil,
You really need to chill out. You are getting a little riled up there. Are you having a hard time fighting fending your position to resort to name calling? Its a common trait amongst all athiests/ agnostics. Just for a little more clarification. The Greeks weren’t the first to say the earth was round. The Greeks weren’t even a large nation at that the time of Isaiah. Isaiah was a prophet of God at around 740 BC and wrote that, 200+ years before the Greeks. He wasn’t an astronomer or anything like that. He wrote what God told him to write. The Bible as we have now is made up of ancient writings pre-dating the Romans and the Greeks. When do you think Solomon wrote about the cycle of air currents? He lived during the 10th century BC. I would say thats thousands of years ago.
Oh, and if you think this country is full of idiots and that sanity rules in Europe you are more than welcome to go back there. You won’t be missed. Oh, thats right, a country full of socialism that won’t let you run a business. You are just not happy anywhere are you?

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